Horseshoe pickups measuring only 1.5ohm

[Peter Knudsen]

I just bought 1954 Rickenbacker. DW16 steel guitar. It’s in exellent condition but unfortunately it does not sound as warm as my 1954 SW8…

They are both equally load but the DW16 is a lot brighter.

I measured the pickups and where the SW8 reads 7.5Ohm, both the pickups on the DW16 only reads 1.5Ohm.

Since they both read the same I guess that someone maybe ordered it to that specification.

I guess that it has a lot windings than the regular old Horseshoe pickups.

A guitar repair guy told me that a recharging of the magnets won’t change the Ohm value so now I am wondering if I should both pickups rewound.to the right specification.

Have any of you guys ran into that problem? And what would you recommend I should do?

Thanks,

Peter

[Donny Hinson]

Okay, a few different issues here:

1.) Early pickups were usually a lower value. At some point in time, manufacturers changed the number of windings to add volume, and change the tone, and this may be the case with your guitar. Keep in mind that most all early steel guitars did not have a "pickup option"; you just got stuck with whatever the manufacturer happened to put in there.

2.) Do you use the tone control, and is it working? One of the guitars may have a different value tone capacitor, either from the factory or from some previous own who changed it. A larger value cap would lower the amount of highs, and make the guitar sound fuller, or "sweeter". Also, a different value of the volume control pot can also change the sound, with higher values allowing more treble to make it to the amplifier.

3.) When both necks of a double-neck guitar are switch "on" at the same time, the sounds generally gets thinner, or treblier. For the fullest tone, you should only have one neck switched "on" at a time, and the pickup switch should allow either, or both pickups to be "on", for some tonal variety.

4.) There are also differences caused by the mass and makeup of the guitar's body. Different woods, or differences in the design or thickness of the body also play a part in the sound. Bodies which are vastly different seldom sound the same.

5.) The ohm-values of pickups are only one of many factors that change the tone of the pickups. Therefore, I suggest that players pay attention to the sound and tone, and not the DC (ohm) resistance values. Two different pickups can have the same ohm reading, but may not sound totally the same. Conversely, two pickups may have vastly different readings, but might have very similar sounds; so concentrate on what you hear, not what you see.

6.) Lastly, controls, and caps are easily changed, and pickups can be custom-rewound if you want a different sound.

Hope all this helps!

[Dave Mudgett]

For the most part, I agree with Donny's comments. In addition, as far as the difference in pickups' DC resistance (I assume you mean 1.5K and 7.5K Ohms, not 1.5 and 7.5 Ohms), the number of windings may not be the only factor. Some pickups, especially early ones, used different wire gauges. For example, Bigsby pickups typically used a fatter wire than, let's say, most Gibson or Fender pickups, which were typically 42 gauge wire (I think Tele Rhythm was 43, or thinner wire). So these Bigsby pickups have a significantly lower DC resistance (more in the range of 1.5-3K Ohms), but still had a fairly high output due to # windings, and a relatively fat, clean sound. I'm honestly not sure what gauge wire was used on various Ricky steel pickups, but it is something to consider. And there are other variables - magnet choice, pickup sensing width, and other things, which affect the complex impedance of the pickup, how much of the string is sensed, and so on.

However on the point of rewinding pickups - personally, I would never rewind a perfectly functional vintage guitar pickup. If I was really hell-bent on a different sound, I'd get a different pickup made to my specs and save the original. They ain't makin' any more vintage pickups, and I would emphatically not reduce the population.

[Mike Christensen]

Rick Aiello on this forum wound one for me a couple years ago. I believe he used the heavier wire and it measured out at 1.5K and kicked butt. if it sounds good play it. MikeC

[Rick Aiello]

Thanks …

The 6 stringers up to the 50’s used 38 AWG Magnet wire … so 5000 turns on their Bakelite bobbins … gave you a DC resistance ~ 1.5 kOhm

When the started adding two poles to the six stringer's bobbins ( yes, that’s how they did it for 8 stringers) … well they wound those with 42 AWG …

[Rick Aiello]

Here’s a typical 8 stringer Ricky bobbin/coil … 7.2 kOhm

IMG_2389.jpeg

I have another 8 stringer Ricky bobbin/coil here … 10.9 kOhm … must be wound with 43 or 44 AWG

I’ve wound 8s with 38 AWG if I’m asked to …. 5000 turns fit , but it really “hangs over” the bobbin ends … DC resistance around 2.3+ kOhm

[Peter Knudsen]

Thanks a lot guys!

I actually cancelled my visit to the local guitar repair guy today.

And, the guy I bought the steel from told me today that when he bought it, one of the pu’s did not work so he had Rick Aiello rewind both pickups with 38 AWG so they landed on 1.5Kohm.

So cool to have you on this thread Rick.

I want to ask you if you can explain how the different AWG gauges/windings affect the sound?

[Rick Aiello]

It’s all about the “turns” of magnet wire and the diameter of that wire.

If I had identical bobbins, identical magnets and the same number of turns (say 5000) …

The 38 AWG coil would be brighter with more output than a 43 AWG coil …

But with the smaller magnet wire diameter … you can put more turns on a given bobbin … increasing the output

Here’s my basic recipes for Rickenbacher 6 stringers ..,

5000 turns of 38 … Brightest
7000 turns of 42
8000 turns of 43 …. Warmest

To sweeten up your new DW units … I’d put a 100 kOhm audio potentiometer in there … that’s the original pot resistance on prewar frypans and Bakelites.

I’d put a 0.047 mfd capacitor in there too …

They also wired them up much differently than the standard scheme … they used the pots as rheostats (2 lugs) varying the load on the pickup.

This will help tame that brightness too …

IMG_2394.jpeg